UK & World News
- 7 October 2012, 3:26
Jeremy Hunt Backs 12-Week Abortion Limit
New Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt has said he supports a reduction in the time limit for women to have abortions from 24 to 12 weeks.
Speaking to The Times, he said he had reached his view based on evidence, not his religious belief.
He said: "I'm not someone who thinks that abortion should be made illegal.
"Everyone looks at the evidence and comes to a view about when that moment is, and my own view is that 12 weeks is the right point for it."
Mr Hunt supported lowering the abortion limit to 12 weeks in a free vote in Parliament in 2008.
"I don't think the reason I have that view is for religious reasons ... there are some issues that cut across health and morality, a bit like capital punishment does for crime," he said.
"There are all sorts of arguments in favour and against in terms of deterrence and justice, but also there is a fundamental moral issue that sits behind it. I think abortion is one of those issues."
Prime Minister David Cameron said Mr Hunt was entitled to his opinion but confirmed the Government had no plans to change the time limit for terminations from 24 weeks.
This was echoed by Home Secretary Theresa May, who told Sky News: "Jeremy has made clear that this is his personal view. The Government has no plans to reduce the limit and has got no plans to change the law on this.
"Every Cabinet minister has personal views on these issues. An issue like this is normally regarded as a matter of conscience when it comes to votes in the House of Commons, so I think it is right that somebody should be clear and open about what their personal view is," she added.
Mr Hunt is the second cabinet minister in a week to argue for lowering the abortion limit.
Women's minister Maria Miller told The Daily Telegraph she would like to see the limit lowered from 24 weeks to 20 weeks.
She said it was "common sense" to lower the legal limit at which a pregnancy can be terminated in order to "reflect the way science has moved on".
Any move to reduce the legal limit for abortion would prove highly controversial and Labour have attacked Mr Hunt.
Diane Abbott, Labour's shadow public health minister, said: "I think women and families across the country will find it staggering that the priority for this Government is playing politics with people's lives like this.
"We're seeing a sustained ideological attack on the science and the rights that British women and families have fought for.
"There is no evidence to support a reduction in the abortion time limit and this view is supported across the medical profession."
Although 91% of abortions take place before 12 weeks, opponents say that a 12-week limit would effectively prevent testing for conditions such as Down's syndrome.
what do you think?
Danny Cooper
What a grade A fool
Mark Wood
Based on the fact that ??
Danny Cooper
Based on the whole report
Margaret Carradus
Is this person fit and proper to be in charge of the health of this country? What happened to representing the views of the electorate? No-one is pushing women through the door of abortion clinics kicking and screaming are they? It is a difficult choice at best , and should be influenced by personal moral and religious belief, not someone else' views in a Government that nobody voted for.
Mark Wood
How about by the medical professionals from whom the research comes? REligious and moral belief SHOULD always be adapting in line with increaed knowledge. Now that we know more about unborn children and medical advance means they are viable at at earlier age our thinking needs to change to keep up. So yes - if that's all he's asking presumably he IS a fit and proper person.
stevie may
Why do men think they have the right to lecture women on their own bodies? This is medieval thinking in 21st Century Britain. . Outrageous! And from the specific perspective of a pagan male who worships God as female. . This is an abomination. Freedom for all my sisters! Freedom from the oppression of patriachal dictates and publicity seeking male politicians
Michael Hawkins
So what you are saying Stevie is only women can have a view on womens issues and only men can have a view on mens issues Abortion affect both men and women - the father and the mother unless there is some other way of getting pregnant It would appear to be you that has a medieval view
Harriett Mavis Goodey
As a retired Theatre Nurse I agree that 24 weeks is wrong. These are little babies being killed. Unless there are medical reasons ie. Mothers life is in danger or baby is severely handicapped the time should be no later than 12 weeks 16 maximum. I am not against abortion,only the time limit. I am certainly not a fan of J Hunt.
Mark Wood
And why do some women think they have the right to treat unborn, but fully formed and viable human beings (female or male) as if they were nothing? Noone is just talking about women's bodies - it's about the body inside!
Julie Crumpton
....so mark, what are you saying? The woman should be tied up, and forced through a pregnancy she doesn't want? Sound extreme? I'm being serious, what would you actualy think should happen? You have to leave sentiment out of this, a woman's body is hers, it scares me the alternative if this ceases to be..
Mark Wood
Erm - don't think I said that Julie no! Just saying that in working out an appropriate "cut off point" - there is more than one living being concerned. If a child is viable weeks before the legal cutoff point - Mr Hunt may have a point. There isn't an easy answer - but I just think always saying "it's the woman's choice" is ignoring the facts .. including other people's understanding of what the after effects of a late abortion are likely to be on the mother.
Jo Brierley
Ridiculous idiot!!!
Michael Hawkins
Who? Stevie
Jo Brierley
No Jeremy Hunt
Robbie369P .
Why?
Michael Dynes
This is in individual who fiddled his taxes, was caught out over the expenses scandal and mislesad the house and lied in the Levenson enquiry. Are we really going to believe a word he says. He is as my friend below says, an idiot. I'm with Diane Abbot and ofcouse with the great Stevie May.
Julie Crumpton
Me too!....not hot on politics, but my husband just said there's a party political conference, conservatives? Is this a "blind" thrown in maybe?
jimmyjedi1979
Typical right winged idiots. Will protect life at all costs before it comes into the world, but once you are born they couldn't care less about you.
Danny Cooper
Ding dong!! Top answer *****
Michael Hawkins
So what you are saying Jimmy, is that until a baby is born we should not give a damn about it ? And after the birth the is no free medical care, free education, benefits for parentns child benefit etc etc Should not the parents take responsibility for their actions and not expect the tax payer to pick up the bill
jimmyjedi1979
No that's not what i said was it.. pointing out the irony of right winged ideology. Like me caring for you though an illness, making you better and then smashing my fist into your face and trying my hardest to make your life as difficult as terrible.
Michael Hawkins
Care is provided through all stages of your life, how many chose to use it and differing standards across the country are another issue In France there is no NHS everyone has to hold insurance and guess what you can get into hospital the next day - good old right wing capitalism delivering
jimmyjedi1979
Michael- you are either a rich man or a rich mans wet dream.
Chris Robinson
'Good old rightwing capitalism delivering'. Like it delivered the current mess we're in, yeah.
Angela Gildea
I agree with him. I also think exceptions on medical reasons could be allowed to accommodate a longer term but only for such reasons. Having a termination is the most difficult decision a woman can ever make but lingering on a decision is not correct. If you look at rates of development, there are times where the heart develops, nerves etc so then you are looking at potential pain to a lifeform. I believe a man can have an opinion on women's rights if it's fair and I see nothing wrong in his comments. They are nothing like the far right idiots across the pond. I also have to add that the NHS can drag it out for weeks so they could do more to be efficient as not all women have the back up of spare cash to go private to get it done quickly for everyone's sake. I think people can be very religious and have views on what is right but when faced with an unplanned pregnancy, their views may change when it is their body. I think they can be very upset at their stupidity and very ashamed at having to proceed with the procedure but also understand for them personally, that they don't want a child. I believe in a women's choice. I believe she should have that but it should be limited for a time lower than the current law-much lower (unless for medical reasons).
Chris Robinson
So, Angela, you believe in a 'time-limited' woman's choice?
Michael Hawkins
Chris Is it not now time limited ? and when doesit cease to become an a abortion and become murder 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 months
Angharad Fennell
As a woman with 3 children and having had all scans etc etc I think 24 weeks is too late. I agree that in severe cases like mum being in danger or severe handicap that yes the option should be there. However some people abuse this rule of 24 weeks and abort a child based on the sex which horrifies me. I think 12 is suitable enough time for someone not wanting to continue a pregnancy to come to a decision and decide on the best course of action. No I'm not religious before you say it. And yes I belive a woman of course has a right to choose. But I think aborting a healthy baby at 24 weeks when they are whole would be very distressing and cause problems later on i.e guilt, immense grief, depression etc.
Mick Salt
I agree with the two lady posters here. It seems like a good idea. It's backed by scientific advice and still gives women a choice of whether to have an unwanted child or not.
Penelope Flowerpot
remember at 5 weeks gestation your unborn babys heart is already beating. I would call that VERY much alive and kicking and NOT a bunch of cells.
Jo Brierley
A lot of women do not know they are pregnant before 12 weeks due to breakthough bleeding or find out around 8-10 weeks leaving it a rushed decision which it should not be. The NHS have a waiting list for abortions too which causes distress and will they pull their finger out to get you within the deadline...I doubt it. Leaving women to go to backstreet abortions again or even more unwanted children than we have now. This will take us back to post 12 week backstreet abortions. Hate me all you like but a desperate woman will do anything. Don't get pregnant is easy to say but it happens, pill doesnt always work, condoms split and underage girls cant get the morning after pill easily
Jo Brierley
Whether you all like it or not if people will have sex, boys/men still refuse to wear condoms and girls/women still "love" them too much to say no. Rape happens - what about those conceptions? What medical terms are you all suggesting are acceptable ....will you decide that mental health issues are acceptable too?
Julie Crumpton
Your right, jo....in an ideal world, eh? The woman MUST come first
Angela Gildea
Yes Chris. After a certain period of time, the cells are more than just cells. It is down to the law makers witth the help of scientists to decide at what stage that should be. I have a few thumbs down. Would anyone like to give a reason for it? Is it they disagree with all of my comments or a particular part?
Michael Hawkins
Just one point Angela - I read Women posters going on about wanting equality and rightly so - the same women go on about women's rights - You cant have both either you want equality or women's rights which is it
Louisa Gieldon
Michael i don't understand the point you are making about equality and rights being different. Please explain?
Chris Robinson
He doesn't like either.
Louisa Gieldon
Whats wrong with you all tonight. I asked Michael a genuine question as i genuinely did not understand his point. \And for that, seven of you voted me down.Would you prefer i just hurled abuse. Would you like to 'fess up to why you felt i deserved voted down? I don't mind getting minus' if you disagree with my opinion. Some of you just love that minus button. Please think before you press it or it's just daft.
Chris Robinson
Louisa, plus or minus doesn't matter. Sometimes people give you a minus just because it's you, no matter what you're saying. yesterday, pro-choice people on here were scoring high. today, the anti-abortionists are out in force so the pendulum swings the other way. And that's all the points system represents - who's on at the time and some very petty people who can offer no arguments. I wouldn't take it to heart.
Louisa Gieldon
Chris, no honestly i haven't been offended i just wanted to point out how stupid it is for them to do that. I think some people really are very thick indeed!
Ziggy Squires
He does not know what he is talking about, leave it to the experts.
Mark Wood
I think that's the point: he's looked at what the experts are showing, rather than just denying it as most people do. ...
Julie Crumpton
The experts being the women concerned....no one else!
happymike CHESTER
This comment has been removed for violations of our Terms and Conditions.
Angharad Fennell
Disgusting comment. Shame on you
Mark Wood
Lots of people describing Jeremy hunt as an idiot. But how can Diane Abbot's comment about "an attack on science" be anything but laughable? It's because of the science that he's suggestiong a lower limit - we are now routinely killing many viable children. How is that good? Surely women's rights are better served by better prevention of unwanted pregnancy in the first place - not by encouraging them to kill their unborn child and then suffer the consequencies later?
Jo Brierley
It is not just about prevention of pregnancy Mark. For me it is more about the fact there is a 4-6 week wait for an abortion on the NHS (I have had to look after one of my team who had that crisis recently). That men make comments about how women should not be the only ones to make comments about this when actually we are in a better position to know about our bodies, e.g. you can bleed through monthly for anything up to the entire pregnancy and not know you are pregnant . I was 16 weeks with my daughter when I realised,. Men may not know that.
Jo Brierley
It is also about the fact it is usually the women who have to look after the child not tha man
Freya Lady-googoo Seymour
but Jo if you dont know your pregnant and dont want your baby why do u have to kill it? There are many people(good people)out there who woiuld give an unwanted baby a loving home. some else said "if u dont want a baby dont get pregnant" (for rape we have the morning after pill) My mum always says "prevention is better than a cure" and i agree with her
Louisa Gieldon
Well said Jo. It's a dfificult issue and not helped by the slow process of appointments and examinations. Twelve weeks is far too soon for a cut off point.
Jo Brierley
It is not an easy decsion to carry a child through to term and then hand it over, just a it is not an easy choice to terminate a pregnancy. It is a decision that only someone can make for their own life and set of circumstances at that time. We can all make judgements on those people but there are so many senarios and circumstances good and bad that make up the decision. Ultimately it is down to the woman carrying the child, hopefully it has been discussed with the father too. Not everyone has the perfect life with a support system be it keeping the baby or going through an adoption.
Penelope Flowerpot
why does everybody go on about "women's choice" and "women's rights" all the time. What about the rights of the unborn??? just because they have no voice they have no rights? how is that right? how can people claim to have women's rights at heart when half the babies aborted are probably female?? we as women are not born with an "abort now" button,abortion is not natural,so by being against abortion does in no way make me against rights for women. im not telling anybody to do anything with their bodies,im simply speaking up for those without a voice. if u don't want a baby don't get pregnant! there are so many ways to prevent unwanted pregnancy's in OUR country there should be no need for the killing of innocent lives. I'm a woman , i do NOT subscribe to any religion and am an atheist ,BUT that does not mean i have to think killing babies (especially viable ones as we do now) is a good thing.
Michael Hawkins
Totally agree Penelope There is a point when what woman want becomes secondary to what is best for the unborn child. At no other point in an individual life are we permitted to cull them Thers seem to be little regard for the unborn child so long a women get what they want
movvi
I agree that the unborn have no voice and agree most strongly with your comment that if someone doesn't want a baby, there are ways of preventing pregnancy (those conceived between two consenting adults, to keep things simple); however I also worry for any baby born to a woman who doesn't want it.
Julie Crumpton
PF, it's easy enough to say don't get pregnant, life ain't like that, the woman MUST come first, however distasteful that may be to you, I'm also atheist, like yourself, in effect, you are telling women what to do with their bodies, while a foetus is inside a woman, only she, and she alone must decide...
Louisa Gieldon
I too am atheist and i think we need to be clear that being pro choice, which i am , is not the same as having the opinion that termination of pregnancy is a "good thing". wixh the issue was as simple as that. Lets ask the hard questions- what about rape victims. abuse victims, the very young who become pregnant, the women who, with a heavy heart, opt for a late termination because of foetal malformities? don't think termnation should be used as "contraception" either but 12 weeks is way too early to place the cut off
Julie Crumpton
Agree, Louisa!
Penelope Flowerpot
the thing is Julie i would take a bullet for my kids whatever their age and i simply cant comprehend how somebody could kill their own baby. only 1 out of my 5 children was planned so i know full well what its like to have not 1 but 3 unplanned pregnancy's. i was also pregnant with twins at a VERY hard time in my life,but it was never my children's fault only mine so how could i make them pay for my mistakes? Im just not that person. for my we are all responsible for our actions and i firmly believe WE should be held accountable not others.
Chris Robinson
That's right, and that's YOUR choice as a woman. Then kindly allow OTHER women to make THEIR choices.
Penelope Flowerpot
lol chris um...what would YOU know about "womens choice"?? And FYI its not a "choice" for me its instinct and caring about children.
Julie Crumpton
Penelope...I fully respect your decisions, the key word being YOUR decisions, I agree with chris, there are a multitude of reasens why a woman decides what she does, take that right away? I shudder to think!
Chris Robinson
Because PF, I actually KNOW a lot of women, and I actually TALK to them and listen to their views.
Jo Brierley
Penelope not every woman is in a position to care for a child when they fall pregnant. Not all of them are even women themselves. As Chris has said it is their CHOICE and we live in a free country. You said yourself you had unplanned pregnancies, they happen, it is a fact of life and the morning after pill is difficult enough to get in your 30s/40s imagine if you are 14-16 and trying to get it. You cannot without your parent's consent, so what do you do if you don't want them to know you are sexually active? People are not really thinking this through, have you all really forgotten what it was like to be a teenager ?
Julie Crumpton
Here we go, ...back to going to back street abortionists! A woman's body is hers, and hers alone, how DARE he dictate there should be 12 week limit!
Michael Hawkins
Julie Why not a 39 week limit ?- after all the unborn child does not matter And a womans body is hers
Julie Crumpton
Don't be facetious,Michael, of course there has to be a cut off point, but I still stand by the simple fact a woman's body is her own......
Michael Hawkins
And the body of the unborn child Julie - is that there for a woman to do with it what she likes
Chris Robinson
Yes, within the bounds of the present law - 24 weeks is probably about right.
Julie Crumpton
Yes, Michael.....it is! Funny that, isn't it? Should we maybe imprison these women? Since time began, women do what's right for them, whilst that feotus is inside them, it remains their decision, how dare the likes of you, or anybody else say different!
Chris Robinson
Not content with leaving his droppings all over the Leveson Enquiry, that well-known rhyming slang Jeremy Hunt - the Minister for Murdoch - now wants to curtail women's rights on what to do with their own bodies. Women's bodies belong to women and nobody else. Do we really want a return to the back street abortionists? Tests for disabilities or embryo deformities don't take place until 18 weeks. All he wants to do is continue the destruction of the NHS, dismantle it and hand it over to the private sector - most of them financial backers of the Tory Party. He's chosen a subject that is emotive in order to divide and rule people and distract from the pending destruction of our health service.
Chris Robinson
Aw, don't you know how to articulate your rage?
Julie Crumpton
Well said, chris! Backing your comments one hundred percent! Women's bodies are theirs and theirs alone!....butt out, jezzer!
Penelope Flowerpot
baby killing shouldn't even be in the same department as "health care/service"
Chris Robinson
Yes, it should, and it isn't 'baby-killing' and it's very backward of you to use that disgusting emotive word, they are either clusters of cells or foetuses. Women have the right to decide what to do with their bodies.
Penelope Flowerpot
at 24 weeks it defiantly IS baby killing
Max Power
well said PF
Julie Crumpton
Pf...we have disagreed before, don't want a slanging match, but serious question, what would you actualy like to see happen? It frightens me that women would be treated like something out of a futuristic film! 24 weeks should remain the cut off point, yes...I would be distressed to see a foetus of that size, but I'm very still firmly of the belief that however emotive, or upsetting, that ultimate choice HAS to be the womans
Louisa Gieldon
Penelope i suspect that you and i will never agree on this matter but i also feel that the language is emotive and innaccurate. In the eyes of the law, termination of pregnancy, subect to certain limitations is legal and evrey woman's right. It is not murder or killing. I can perfectly understand your feelings, even if i do not share them. but your choice of words is unfair.
Michael Hawkins
And should a man, if a woman choses to keep a child that he does not want be able to walk away with no financial obligation to support the child After all it is the woman's choice and she should stand by her decision and any financial consequences that her descision may bring After all it a woman right to make the decision
Jo Brierley
I agree completely, I said earlier we will go back to backstreet abortions and women's wellbeing will suffer. We will return to pre 1967 and with the teenage pregnancy rate we have currently I dread to think how many of those "women" will be young girls. That is the scary thing !! Too scared to tell their Mums and then it gets to the 12 week deadline and it is too late .... I don't even want to think of the rest.
Chris Robinson
No, Michael, men should face up to their responsibilities, but many don't and so leave women and children in hardship and that's why we need benefits (you know, those things you and your kind so object to) to help them 'subsist'.
Michael Hawkins
(you know, those things you and your kind so object to) Chris could you point out in which post I have stated the above My type - Hard working - honest - paying those who work for me (all no union) a decent wage in return for hard work heaven help the country if there are too many of us that do not hide behind the union card to avoid a decent days work
movvi
This has got the feathers flying and rightly so - an important issue. There's no real mystery why 91% of abortions are carried out before 12 weeks though - it's quite obvious how much lower the risks are then. In cases when there is a devastating disability which needs later scans to detect then there must be more lenient timeframes.
John Byrne
7:31am on 6/10/2012
I believe Maria Miller is missing a point. It does not matter that science has moved on and babies born prematurely can survive when born before 20 weeks (although that's brilliant and amazing) It is a separate issue to abortion and the reasons that someone will require one at 22 weeks. If Jeremy Hunt is not driven by right wing religious belief im going to be shocked, dropping the legal limit to 12 weeks is one thing, but discussing it along side capital punishment is very twisted indeed and then to use the word fundamental shows where his views are coming from.