UK & World News

  • 16 February 2012, 13:53

Anglo-French Troops Train In Defence Alliance

British and French troops are training together in Northumberland this week as the two countries adopt the closest military alliance in their joint history.

Soldiers from Britain's 5 Scots are alongside a French Army Parachute Company from the French 11th Parachute Brigade for the live fire exercise in Otterburn.

The Ministry of Defence said: "Exercise Boars Head is part of the continuing relationship between French and British Army units following the signing of the Defence and Security Co-operation Treaty. It is a natural, and logical, step in our relationship."

French President Nicolas Sarkozy and British Prime Minister David Cameron signed two historic defence and security treaties in November 2010 at Lancaster House in London.

The treaties, which are designed to last 50 years, represent an unprecedented level of co-operation between the two countries.

One treaty will see military co-operation with options including the sharing of aircraft carriers and the deployment of ground troops from both countries under a single British or French commander.

Industrial co-operation will be enhanced too, with agreement on a 10-year plan to ensure that the two countries' defence industries are enhancing each other's work rather than duplicating it.

The other separate treaty allows for greater nuclear co-operation. France and Britain are the only two states with nuclear weapons in Europe.

The two leaders announced what amount to unprecedented levels of knowledge-sharing on nuclear capabilities.

The exercise in Northumberland involves a wide range of live firing exercises. A range of supporting weapon systems from both countries will be used.

The French troops will conduct live fire attacks supported by a British Fire Support team.

The troops will be watched by two top generals from the two armies: the UK Commander of Land Forces, General Sir Nick Parker and his French counterpart, Lt Gen Herve Charpentier, Commander Forces de Terrestres.

The two countries have worked alongside each other before in Bosnia, in the Congo and to a smaller extent in Afghanistan.

The aim now is to create a bi-national Rapid Reaction Force - two units of 5,000 or so troops under one French or British commander.

It could deploy anywhere at short notice, operating either bilaterally or through Nato.

Operating together allows the UK and French governments to implement significant savings in their defence budgets while maintaining similar levels of operational ability - albeit shared.

British military sources say it is an obvious alliance. Britain and France are the only two European countries with a seat at the UN Security Council.

They are the two biggest spenders on defence in Europe, they face similar threats and they have common interests.

But some analysts are sceptical of the plan, which they say will only work while the politicians agree and while Anglo-French foreign policy remains broadly the same.

A senior source within the French defence sector told Sky News that implementation of the new treaties is broadly going very well but it would take time for it to work properly. He said: "Naval and Air Force co-operation is very good, but has always been.

"Between the Army things have always been more difficult. They began to know each other in Kosovo and now in Afghanistan but nothing to be compared with Navy and Air Force."

He added: "It will take time for the man in MoD Whitehall to call his chum in the French Ministry of Defence as he does with his friend in the Department of Defence in Washington."

Historically, France and the UK have not been close.

Militarily, the UK has tended to lean away from France and the rest of Europe and position itself alongside the United States. France on the other hand has carved itself an independent path, often contrary to US policy.

The 2003 Iraq war was bitterly opposed by the French. Then-president Jacque Chirac refused to take part and publicly fell out with prime minister Tony Blair and president George W Bush over the conflict.

However, the intervention in Libya last year was an example of the two countries working well together in an air and naval operation.

The upcoming presidential election in France might be the first sticking point. A socialist win, pushing Mr Sarkozy aside, might result in a different stance on French foreign policy.

The personal relationship between the two leaders could also be an issue.

Mr Cameron's decision to block the EU treaty last year was extremely unwelcome in Paris.

Ex-French president Charles de Gaulle once said: "Treaties are like roses and young women - they last while they last."

The architects of this latest military treaty will hope he was wrong.

what do you think?

17 comments

Roger Rushkin

9:45am on 16/2/2012

Great Idea. Share resources.

Score: 3
4 replies

David Wragg

11:14am on 16/2/2012

What happens when we both need them at the same time?

Score: 4

Roger Rushkin

11:58am on 16/2/2012

For example? An aircraft carrier is the only possible item. And when is that lieley to happen?

Score: 1

Grant Berry

4:00pm on 16/2/2012

Roger, well said

Score: 2

David Wragg

6:42pm on 16/2/2012

I don't know where you are coming from Roger, but I think that you have a pretty odd idea of reality and certainly would happily see this country with its great history overrun.

Score: 1

Micky Lyden

10:13am on 16/2/2012

Wtf his he doing idiots

Score: 2

Buzz Teddy Head

10:40am on 16/2/2012

Well at least they won't be selling exorcet missiles to the Argentines while this is going on. We hope :/

Score: 4

chris

10:50am on 16/2/2012

There is great sense in this. France realised (in 1945 ish) that to survive in the future as an independant nation it needed to develope a much stronger military (and in time a nuclear) capability. Two British(and Commonwealthnations)/US bailouts was enough! And also that the politics of Europe would have to change - hence the 'Common Market' (read as EU integration) The future of EuroLand is not guaranteeded, things could turn nasty once again. It's good, from their point of view, to have close friends, especially those with very effective fighting military forces. I note with interest that Germany has developed the ultimate class of long range totally silent electric powered hunter killer submarines! The rules of the game never change. If we require huge ammounts of imports , by sea, of food and oil/gas to feed millions of mouths, we remain vulnerable.

Score: 2
4 replies

David Wragg

11:14am on 16/2/2012

We had completely silent electrically-powered conventional submarines, but they were withdrawn as a defence cut and sold to Canada. Things will turn nasty as the EU is a straightjacket, a bureaucratic, undemocratic nightmare, with ideals without practical foundation, as the Euro crisis has shown.

Score: 3

Roger Rushkin

12:17pm on 16/2/2012

The EU will get stronger and more unified. Union is getting closer and for the benefit of everyone in Europe. The Tories will never withdraw from the EU. They are not that dumb Only the rabid and the right wing shout from the side lines (a la UKIP and BNP in this country)

Score: 2

David Wragg

1:28pm on 16/2/2012

UKIP claims to be a liberal right-of-centre party. I am opposed to the EU, an organisation that is corrupt and has not produced audited accounts for ten years. It is hardly strong or unified at present as the misconceived Eurozone is showing. Once Putin is returned to power and creates his Union of Eurasian States, we will soon see how thiongs stack up. Expect a new Cold War.

Score: 1

Roger Rushkin

1:38pm on 16/2/2012

The EU does have a financial 'crisis' at the moment. But then so does the US, the UK and many other countries. The Eurozone was not misconceived it was misled by certain countries that 'cooked their books' to gain entry. This problem is now being dealt with and fortunately the UK is participating in the negotiations rather than playing the 'pathetic little Englander' role so beloved by UKIP and the BNP. The war is over, many years ago. Europe has moved on. The EU can only get stronger. Thankfully our politicians know this. Europa Invicta

Score: 1

ncarlse69

10:54am on 16/2/2012

Why would you want to share?? This is the problem, do we have to book up to use aircraft carriers. At the moment fingers crossed we don't have a situation in the Falklands, but the ways its going!!!

Score: 3

Roger Rushkin

11:08am on 16/2/2012

All the European nations should pool resources. It makes sense in every way. Similar to what happened in Libya. UK, French, Danish and Italian planes using Italian military airfields to fly sorties from. This is a positive move between France and the UK.

Score: 2
6 replies

David Wragg

11:11am on 16/2/2012

I think that you have no experience of reality. For a start, resources can already be shared through NATO, but the EU is trying to replicate NATO because of French resentment of the British and Americans. Secondly, there are many occasions when an individual country has its own priorities and needs. For us, it could be the Falklands or Sierra Leone, for the French it could be any one of their former colonies, indeed, France keeps a tighter grip on her former colonies than we ever did.

Score: 4

Roger Rushkin

12:03pm on 16/2/2012

The EU should have a joint operational force. The US would certainly endorse this as it would take the pressure off NATO. And anyway NATO is a Cold War institution and not really applicable (treaty wise) to the modern environment. An EU force would be more relevant and would reflect the current needs of our continent. Colonialism is pretty much over so Expeditionary Forces are things of the past in the main.

Score: 2

David Wragg

1:25pm on 16/2/2012

The Falklands, Afghanistan and Iraq were all expeditionary operations, as was Sierra Leone. In any case, my point remains that the European nations have different objectives and priorities. Would we help Spain if Morocco wanted Ceuta and Melilla back? Would France help us if Spain seized Gibraltar. You nare in a fanasy world.

Score: 2

Roger Rushkin

1:32pm on 16/2/2012

The invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq were allied forces - Italian, UK, Canadian etc led by the US. The Falklands was a neo colonialist conflict. I support the pooling of resources and the end to intra European conflict. It's what Europe has been striving for the past six decades and joint military cooperation is the logical end result. If the UK and / or French need to fight petty colonial skirmishes I am sure they will not stand in each other's way militarily. The future is cooperation.

Score: 1

Micky Lyden

3:29pm on 16/2/2012

Actually rodger NATO was formed during world war 2 because the germens had formed the warsaw pact

Score: 3

David Wragg

6:41pm on 16/2/2012

Let's get some facts straight. The Falklands was not 'neo-colonialist' as the islanders wanted to stay British and the mainland of South America is some 400 miles away. NATO was NOT formed during WWII but afterwards as the Russians formed the Warsaw Pact.

Score: 2

David Wragg

11:08am on 16/2/2012

A company of French paratroops - that means 100-150 men at most. Hardly a proper exercise. In any case, what we want to know is whether the French will stand by our side if we need to defend or recover the Falklands. I think we all know that the answer will be 'NON'. This is more Cameron spin to try to conceal the fact that he has crippled our armed forces while wasting money to the tune of GBP 9bn annually on overseas aid to dictators, their families and mistresses.

Score: 4
2 replies

Windows Live User

12:43pm on 16/2/2012

They have to share their aircraft carriers with us as they agreed, or we are sunk

Score: 1

David Wragg

1:22pm on 16/2/2012

In that case, we are sunk. By the way, they have just one aircraft carrier, the Charles de Gaulle. Says it all really.

Score: 2

Name witheld

11:13am on 16/2/2012

This comment has been removed for violations of our Terms and Conditions.

Score: 5

Name witheld

11:16am on 16/2/2012

This comment has been removed for violations of our Terms and Conditions.

Score: 5
3 replies

eastonandrea

11:53am on 16/2/2012

Yeah if Germany decided to start WW3 who would the French help, President Nicolas Sarkozy and David don't have the best relationship and Sarkozy and Merkel seemed quite happy in each others company if the news was anything to go by.

Score: 2

Roger Rushkin

12:14pm on 16/2/2012

Jeez - the discourse between you two is infantile.

Score: 2

hamish kay

12:57pm on 16/2/2012

why would germany want to invade here with all the africans, poles, russians here? tactically they could invade poland and russia far more easily now and create a greater germania far more easily.

Score: 5

ANDREW MILLIGAN

11:30am on 16/2/2012

That sounds fun.The French parachute in and the Scots shoot them.

Score: 5
1 reply

Windows Live User

12:41pm on 16/2/2012

Northumberland is still in England!

Score: 4

hamish kay

11:31am on 16/2/2012

great, so they will help in falklands scenario then? i doubt it as they export lots mirage jets, exocets etc to the argentinians. it is fraught with difficulties. suez in 56 was another example of post ww2 operations together. it has it's place and is good. but why cut costs to implement it. just write debt off greece is folding and the global banking system will colllapse soon meaning independant countries and policies likely again.

Score: 1

Windows Live User

12:38pm on 16/2/2012

What !!! French in my town!!! Was that one I saw surrendering?

Score: 4

hamish kay

12:59pm on 16/2/2012

like vichy and petain, half will be on uk side, half on the german side. just to be safe.

Score: 1
1 reply

Roger Rushkin

3:10pm on 16/2/2012

Like the Channel Islands - collaborators will arise wherever circumstances permit.

Score: 1

Roger Rushkin

1:41pm on 16/2/2012

I hope this cooperation goes even further to include other European nations. This would be great progress for Europe politically, militarily and in terms of influence. It would also help each country to save on their defence budget if our resources were pooled.

Score: 4
1 reply

eastonandrea

4:25pm on 16/2/2012

I do agree with you Roger it would be nice if all European countries did a "Military pool", my only worry really would be if 2 of the counties in this Pool had a fall out what then?

Score: 1

gypsy56

2:22pm on 16/2/2012

Mr Wragg, it may be true what you say about the french only having one aircraft carrier, but sadly that is one more than we have currently, and even/if our new ones are completed in a couple of years time, we will still have no aircraft to put on them - all thanks to Mr Cameron!

Score: 5
1 reply

David Wragg

6:37pm on 16/2/2012

I agree, but the point is that anyone who thinks that we can borrow their ship is living in a dreamland.

Micky Lyden

3:32pm on 16/2/2012

Didnt the french just hijack our deal with india

Score: 2
1 reply

Roger Rushkin

3:34pm on 16/2/2012

No, the Indians just preferred French jets.

Score: 1

david p

4:17pm on 16/2/2012

Will it be Brit soldiers firing guns and French ones waving flags???

Score: 1
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