UK & World News
- 28 February 2013, 12:10
'Anti-Gay' Bus Ad: Christian Group In Court
A Christian group has launched a battle "for free speech" against London's Mayor, Boris Johnson, after he banned its adverts claiming gay people can be "cured" from buses.
Mr Johnson said the ads by the Core Issues Trust could offend gay people and spark retaliation against the wider Christian community.
The posters said: "Not Gay. Ex-Gay, Post-Gay and Proud. Get over it!" and were in response to a previous poster campaign by Stonewall, the gay rights group, which said: "Some people are gay. Get over it!"
The group is challenging the decision by the Mayor, who is in charge of Transport for London (TfL) in the High Court.
Paul Diamond, appearing for the Core Issues Trust, told the judge: "We believe this is a very important free speech case on whether a totally temperate, restrained advertisement can be put on the sides of London buses."
Ahead of the hearing, Trust Director Dr Mike Davidson said: "This is all about being free to talk about these issues. It was a mistake to assume these views we were expressing came from entrenched homophobia, and failed to recognise that people who want to walk away from their homosexual feelings are a group in their own right."
The trust will draw attention to a poster which some Christians found offensive. Funded by Richard Dawkins, the academic, and the British Humanist Association in 2009, it said: "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying. And enjoy your life."
Andrea Williams, Director of the Christian Legal Centre, which is supporting the case, said: "In a truly democratic society people should be free to choose their behaviour and move away from homosexual behaviour if they wish.
"The possibility that a section of the public will take offence to a particular viewpoint is not a legitimate ground for restricting freedom of expression."
She said: "Boris Johnson needs to realise his mistake and ensure there is freedom for all in the marketplace of ideas. He cannot prefer one group over another."
A Transport for London spokesperson said: "We intend to oppose the application for a Judicial Review of our decision not to run this advertisement on London buses.
"The advertisement breached TfL's Advertising Policy as in our view it contained a publicly controversial message and was likely to cause widespread offence to members of the public.
"This view was borne out by the high number of complaints we received about the ad and the large number of negative comments on social media and newspaper websites."
Update:
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what do you think?
Steven Tracey
Question for moderators: If you can't use the word g-ay and the word h-omosexual in your posts then what word should we type? Or is it just better in the eyes of this site to not have certain groups discussed? I'm assuming that these words are just so bad and that explains why I can submit the word genocide without issue???
blue side
Steve you have to smile they use these words in the reports but we are banned - what P R A T S run this show?
Phil A
There are a lot of other words in the English language which can be used to describe guy people. All are more offensive than guy but you would probably be able to type them on here. There was a time when guy meant 'frivolously happy' has that changed?
david conway
Only fair to allow both or neither party to advertise. Besides "get over it" is a slightly offensive remark to park on a bus. Adverts on buses should be limited to commercial and not to political or sensitive issues.
blue side
Now the pendulum swings in favour of the latest government hobby horse - seems the majority view is under threat yet again
pjbeckett
I am quite happy to let the g-y community get on with whatever it is that they want to do provided that they leave the rest of us out of it -----------? The snag is, are they happy with that idea ?
Simon .
I think the g@y commuinity os quite happy to leave the rest of us out of it - all they're asking for is not to be discriminated against because of their sexual orinetation. I'd imagine if they were accepted without question (of course - individuals are always going to have a problem with someone) as they should be I don'tthink they would be advertising this sort of thing. The fact that the church sees sexual orientation as a problem that needs to be addressed and "normalised" shows how the prblem is not with the glbt community but the so called straight community.
stevie may
Everytime any of the patriachal faiths start ranting at same sex relationships they just highlight how antiquated and nonrelevant they are in the 21st Century. Convert to Paganism - no doctrine, no dogma. Just a deep love of Mother Earth and a sense of primal spirituality, just like the Shamans of prehistory who tried to empathically understand the moods of the cosmos with their emotions. As long as your happy, and don't hurt anyone else, Mother Nature dosent care whichever of the 5 genders you want to sleep with. Blessed be!
pjbeckett
Very good now ! give some deep thought to that doctrine yourself.
stevie may
No thanks beckett - don't believe in dogma or doctrine. Only love, peace and harmony. Also believe Mary Magdelen was Jesus Christ's favourite and closest disciple. It was HER that he wanted to form his church after his death. Have studied your doctrine, won't follow it because it says women are 2nd class citizens and that g ay people/witches/pagans should be killed.
david conway
Actually Stevie, Mother Nature does care as it does not allow same sex couples to create children! Therefore is Mother Nature going to be termed discriminatory?
El Bubsio
Sorry David, but by that argument, mother mature doesn't allow infertile straight couples to have children either. What's your point?
stevie may
David - procreation of the species and physical enjoyment of another body are not exclusively the same. Mother Goddess, or Lilith (to give her personal name) is Goddess of Transgender people, g ay, lesbian and bi-sexual folk. Not just heteros. Once spent some quality time with a Hermaphrodite witch - that was a theological education!!!
d and d Phillips
Twaddle
david conway
My point to el bubsio is that one is bending mothers rules the other is breaking them. No offence just opinion.
Windows Live User
" Mother Nature dosent care whichever of the 5 genders you want to sleep with " Oh, but mother natures child does, as can be seen by all this never ending discussion. the tunnel, or the funnel. choices over end of discussion
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Peggy Sutton
I think Mr Goofi Nappy Singh is a fan of Mr ChristosDeJesus!
Gordon Wright
Judging by the style of writing, I reckon they might be one and the same...............
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El Bubsio
Very true and good luck and best wishes to you all.
Peter Edwardson
A poor attempt to counteract the HS lobby that appear to have sown up the media and are busy trying to convince normal people that HS is normal. A cure would be good but HS is too fashionable.
davenlesley
Peter. I do get fed up with the way this lifestyle is practically promoted at times. People are what they are but activists continually throw the issue in others peoples faces. I believe most gayz just want to get on with their life in peace & quiet
El Bubsio
Dave, how do you see it as promoted? This advert is a statement of fact designed to combat the ludicrous (one could almost say unnatural) views of people like peter. It doesn't particularly promote anything. You could say that g@y people have parades and festivals, but then so do many groups, including religious ones. Perhaps if ignorant views like the one above us weren't present, there'd be no need for any of that.
davenlesley
Putting ads on buses and then refusing others a right of reply is one. I don't have a problem with ga y festivals which, as you rightly sat are no different from those others hold. But then I try to see both sides of an issue you apparently do not
El Bubsio
I would hope by now Dave that you would know me better than that. I have no problem with a persons right to respond, however, creating an advert that implies homosexuality is some disease to be cured, an advert that (imo) is intended to promote hatred and is demonstrably untrue is not really a measured response. For the record, if stonewall had created an advert saying "religion is a sham and people who believe in God need to be cured" or something similar, I'd be arguing just as strongly against that.
El Bubsio
No peter, you ignore me because I pull you up on things that you have no argument for, instead coming up with ridiculous excuses like demands for payment to hear your 'wisdom'. So you say you have no problem with g@y people but then say it's not normal. How so? And how is homosexuality being rammed down your throat? (nice euphemism btw)
davenlesley
ElB. That is exactly it. Your opinion believes the ad promotes hatred and suggests gayz have a disease others do not. Had stonewall ran the ad you suggest I for one wouldn't find it offensive and would probably agree with them. But that again is just an opinion
Peter Edwardson
EB. Many people from many countries have paid a lot of money for my knowledge what makes you special. I have no intention of trying to educate you on this subject because you are entitled to your opinion. I don't respect it but you are entitled to it. I think the Orange censors also proved my point about the media by removing my post and I will not waste anymore time on this subject because due to censorship it is impossible to have a meaningful debate.
davenlesley
I like the ad stonewall ran. "Some people are ga y get over it". I suspect that is precisely the way many people think. "So what" is my reaction but to then refuse those for whom it is an issue to respond is biased and restricts freedom of speech. That said we are far to quick to take offence in this country and I often think that there are many who go around looking for reasons to be offended and make an issue of something which is quite innocuous
El Bubsio
Sorry, but many people's problem with Homosexuality is that it's somehow unnatural. But there's really only 2 ways one can support that argument - through region or evolution, as depending on ones beliefs, these are the 2 creators of nature. But there's a fundamental problem with either assertion. From the religious standpoint, you're basically either saying god created g@y people (in which case they must be ok) or that God - a supposedly perfect being - made a mistake. From an evolutionary point of view, we're all here because of a series of generic anomalies, meaning g@y people are no more unnatural than ginger haired people or the left handed. At best (or worst), you could call them unproductive, but certainly not unnatural. Moving on to the story at hand, I say good on Boris. After all, the stonewall advert simply states a fact, nothing more. The christian one implies that Homosexuality can be cured, thereby further implying that it's something bad to be rectified. And they wonder why people are leaving the church in droves.
davenlesley
ElB. So you advocate denying a right of response because their viewpoint differs from yours. Seems rather blinkered
Windows Live User
whats wrong with being left-handed?
Emma Allum
Nicely put El, and it can't be God making a mistake, cam it? Because God is infallible, apparently...
El Bubsio
I'm not denying anyone a right to a reasonable reply Dave. However, I do have a problem with anyone creating an advert that is (imo) designed to be offensive to a certain group and is basically untrue. If the tables were turned and stonewall (or anyone) produced an advert saying something like "religious people are mad and need to be cured", I'd find that equally as bad. WLU, they're all the spawn of Beelzebub and shall spend eternity boiling in molten cheese for their heresy :-P
davenlesley
ElB. But that is the point. In your opinion they are being offensive but no doubt in their opinion they believe they are speaking the truth. You cannot deny someone an opinion just because you disagree with it. And for what it is worth I didn't find Richard Dawkins advert offensive either
d and d Phillips
Most people are straight. Gays get over it.
El Bubsio
And unlike some straight people, im sure g@y people can cope with that fact.
Dave Smith
Whoever wrote this story named "the bible" must be laughing his ar se off
Steven Tracey
I'm gày and a full time parent of 2 fantastic, intelligent and compassionate teenagers. What do I need to be cured of exactly? And while I'm here, ḥmosexuals are found within all animal species implying that not only is it an evolved process but probably also fundamental to our cohabiting existence and place in nature. Therefore it doesn't surprise me that the church is so opposed - bunch of celibate men in frocks praying to Thor or something now that's natural isn't it?
Neil C
Really should this even be going through the courts. 'Get over it' for the love of jesus h crist hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ;O)
happymike CHESTER
The powerful G=y lobby getting on their high horse again In the House of Lords /Parliment/councils and media their only agenda ,to hell with old people dying of the cold NHS cuts unemployment ect. G=y`s Just go away do what you want to do quietly like every body else you have won the argument.GET OVER IT.
field_pete
Surely, if the pro g ay movement are allowed to have and express an opinion then those who oppose that are equally entitled to have and express their opinions, without of course being classed as homophobic.
Brian Quinn
Whatever happened to free speech.
Steven Tracey
7:43am on 28/2/2013
Could you imagine the outrage if a gày lobby group wanted an advert to promote the idea of leaving Christianity and it's "teachings" and convert into a gày? But as usual its the same old sex obsessed virgins banging their drum when they should be focusing on just how corrupt and perverse many religions are and their own needs to reform.
pjbeckett
8:58am on 28/2/2013
You`re a bit behind the times, preaching hatred of the church seems to be the " in thing " nowadays.
stevie may
11:05am on 28/2/2013
Not without reason beckett, not without justification
Steven Tracey
1:12pm on 28/2/2013
PJ - don't you mean the church is behind the times - g.ay bashing is so 0-2000 AD.
Dave Smith
1:16pm on 28/2/2013
Amen.