UK & World News
- 9 January 2013, 12:45
Belfast City Hall Raises Union Flag
The Union Flag has been raised on Belfast City Hall to mark the birthday of the Duchess of Cambridge, but it is unclear whether it will it help or hinder efforts to resolve the crisis over the emblem in Northern Ireland.
Five weeks have passed since the city's council voted to restrict the flying of the Union Flag to 19 designated days, such as royal birthdays, but tension surrounding the issue has continued unabated.
The east of the city witnessed disturbances for a sixth consecutive night - albeit on a reduced scale - but there is no such thing as an acceptable level of violence as far as the First Minister is concerned.
Peter Robinson told Sky News: "Many people have already distanced themselves from the protests because of the violence.
"When I hear those who purport to lead the protest talk about the Police Service of Northern Ireland as 'terrorists' or 'Nazis', they are not using the language of unionism, they are using the language of republicanism."
Loyalists will welcome the fact that the Duchess's birthday is being marked in the traditional fashion, but they recognise that the return of the flag is only temporary - so far short of what they demand.
On one hand, it is about the flag - a potent symbol of their Britishness - but it is also about demographics. Protestants no longer hold sway in Belfast and some working class unionists have lost faith in politics.
Peter Robinson and Mike Nesbitt, the leaders of the two largest unionist parties, invited disaffected Protestants to raise their concerns through a forum, but protesters have already dismissed the effort.
The First Minister added: "Here is a mechanism whereby you can channel your frustration, where you can indicate the kind of things you want in your area, and political leaders will be listening.
"Now, if you offer a political alternative and people don't take it, then very clearly those are people who are against the process and against democracy."
The crisis has caused enormous damage to the image of Northern Ireland, scheduled to host the G8 Summit of world leaders in June, and a temporary hoisting of the flag is not going to resolve it anytime soon.
Update:
Hello, regular commenting on Orange News and Sport pages closes on Thursday 30 May 2013. We will continue to provide a commenting facility on major news and sport events on orangeworld.co.uk. Contact http://orangeworld.co.uk/p/helpandcosts/feedback if you have any further questions. Thanks.
what do you think?
shaun spencer
Why dont they fly both flags.
Brian Holmes
Because Northern Ireland is part of the UK, recognised by the United Nations. To fly the flag of the Republic of Ireland would make as much sense as flying the Stars and Stripes over Westminster. And also because to do so would probably result in many deaths. This situation has come about because Peter Robinson has for years ignored the murmurings of discontent of grassroots unionists and loyalists. Too many concessions have been given to Gerry Adams' Sinn Fein to the great detriment of unionist communities who suffered murder and mayhem at the hands of the IRA for over 30 years. One big casualty of this will be the middle ground Alliance Party who have now totally lost the trust of moderate unionists.
shaun spencer
Both side are as bad as each other.but i do believe the orange marches and protests for six months every year just provokes the situation.this council is mostly republican so what flag would they want to fly.peaple of northern ireland voted them in, they could vote them out.theres no reason why both flags cant be flown.the orangemen are outdated. Instead of marching they ought to have turned it into a carnival for all.
Brian Holmes
Shaun, the unionists would normally hold a mojority in Belfast City Council. But some unionist voters felt disenfranchiused by their representatives so they opted to vote for the moderate Alliance Party in protest. This put the Alliance Party in the position of holding the balance of power on the City Council. Unfortunately, they foolishly sided with Sinn Fein in a vote to remove the Union Flag from Belfast City Hall. This will be reversed at the next council elections, I have no doubt, but look at what has happened.
Brian Holmes
In answer to your question: the flag they would want to fly is the tricolour of the Republic of Ireland. The Orange Order marches are conducted in an orderly, peaceful and respectful manner 99% of the time. It is a major part of the Ulster Scots culture and they have made big efforts to turn it into an inclusive carnivel. But they are under constant propaganda attack - and often physical attack - from republicanism that wants any semblance of Britishness removed from Northern Ireland.
shaun spencer
If youve ever witnessed the orange marches and observed whats really going on youd feel differently.i seen how the orange marches go on.they delibatrately antagonise situations the catholics by marching into a catholic estate under the protetion of the british.they dont just march through they then decide to march contiuosly around a catholic church and up and down catholic streets until someone retaliates.thats why i say ban these marches and turn them into peaceful carnivals.wishful thinking but possible.
shaun spencer
Someone would always get a gun and fire it into the air.this would make the orangemen disperse.then came the police invading peaples houses.and all hell would break loose.
Brian Holmes
Out of thousands of parades last year only a handful resulted in violence and that came from both sides. I have seen and been in the vicinity of countless loyalist parades in my lifetime and have never seen violence. The only people who get offended are those who seek to be. They are part of the Sinn Fein cold war attack on everything British and Ulster Scots.
Brian Holmes
That Sinn Fein cold war is a big part of the problem because it tells the unionist people that Sinn Fein are only paying lip service to the peace process and are still actively working to destroy the unionist culture in Northern Ireland. This is in distinct contrast to the acceptance of the peace process by the unionist people and all the hard-to-swallow concessions to violent terrorists that came with it.
John Andrew
think people should start looking away from the protesters to the idiots WHO knew this may cause a problem and decided to go vote on it.and have them charged along with others for inciting a riot ! but its the protesters fault,will add note not armchair warriors who get up and belive in what they believe
Brian Holmes
I agree. This flag issue was started by Sinn Fein as part of their continuing cold war on the very existance of unionist-minded people and the culture of the Ulster Scots. They knew exactly waht they were doing and the likely consequences but now they are trying to give the impression that they are committed to peace and equality. Peter Robinson, and Ian Paisley before him, got too cosy in the seat of power with Sinn Fein and showed nothing but distain for the people they were supposed to reopresent, Now the DUP are at the same risk of collapse as the previously biggest unionist party, the UUP. Very dangerous times.
Robinson56Chris
And the Progressive Unionist Party are waiting to step into their shoes and what for? More division and sectarianism.
Brian Holmes
No, the PUP are still perceived by unionist people to have links to the pararmilitary UVF and, while they have some pockets of support, the unionist people will not support them in significant numbers - unlike Sinn Fein/IRA, the instigators of the flag problem, who enjoy majority nationalist support. Some unionist votes, especially in East Belfast, will go to the more hardline (than the DUP) TUV but really we are looking at a very dangerous leadership vacuum.
Robinson56Chris
So it's a fight between the PUP and TUV to make gains in this 'crisis of the flags'.
Brian Holmes
The DUP are very vunerable. They really only became the majority unionist party after the fall from grace of the Ulster Unionist Party (previously the largest) which was caused by the then leader, David Trimble (now Lord), arrogantly ignoring the expressed wishes of the Unionist electorate. Robinson has made exactly the same mistake and he, too, will be heading for The Lords after the next election. The TUV will seek to exploit the opening but many moderate unionists will tactically vote UUP. The unionist vote is hopelessly split between too many unionist parties and they need to consolidate to provide any hope of leadership and finding a solution to the underlying problem of the electorate's loss of trust in them. The jolly is over.
Robinson56Chris
Whether a mere flag flies or not, the whole thing would fade into insignificance if social conditons significantly improved for all sections of the community. The sectarian politicians who fueled division all those years and now ostensibly 'share' power are merely acting as de facto commissioners handing down cuts and unemployment on behalf of Westminster.
Brian Holmes
Chis, there is no such thing as a mere flag anywhere in the world. Flags represent people; they represent who they are, what they are, where they came from and what they want to be. I have said this before and I know you genuinely can't get your head around it, social conditions are very much secondary to national allegiance in Northern Ireland.
Robinson56Chris
So all this riooting is a good thing, is it? All for a mere flag? Of course not. It's what lies behind it. People are not having their needs met. If they had decent jobs, homes, instead of cuts, unemployment, low pay etc the importance of a flag would fade into insignificance apart from those who wish to gain political power by keeping the old prejudices alive.
Brian Holmes
What lies behind it is territorial claim, not social conditions. The territorial dispute has always been there through good times and bad. The Republic of Ireland is even more broke than the UK and will be deep in debt for a lifetime, yet that makes no difference at all to those who want a united Ireland. As for social deprivation, so-called positive discrimination by the British Government has resulted in all - yes, all - major foreign investment going to nationalist areas. The nationalists are getting it better than the unionists but they want to join a bankrupt state.
Robinson56Chris
I agree with you, Brian, to the extent of the way Westminster dispenses its 'largesse' according to its own agenda - at one time to keep one sectarian community sweet while neglect another, the hllmarks of the divide and rule policy that has plagued the whole of Ireland down the ages. The Republic IS in dire straits, but so is NI. In both 'Irelands' the capitalist class is presiding over social deprivation of 'their' people while feathering their own nests. If both populations did but know it, they have far more in common with each other than they do with their own 'leaders' who are intent on selling them down the river handing down cuts and more cuts.
Robinson56Chris
While people are fighting each other over 'flags' and sectarian divides, it distracts them from the real enemy, the poiticians of both communities who 'share' power and the spoils of office.
Brian Holmes
Chris, I see yout point and I can't say I disagree with you. But the fact on the ground remains that the row over territory is Number One in the chart here. All politicians use and abuse their constituents and supporters, that's a fact, and when they step over the line it kicks off. This trouble was entirely predictable and so was no accident.
jimmyjedi1979
free Ireland from British occupation
Brian Holmes
Behave yourself jimmy lol
joelle cooke
@Brian Holmes,who are you ,telling other people how to behave,you behave yourself! Bully!!
joelle cooke
any occupation,is wrong!!
Brian Holmes
This is too big a task for me! lol
jimmyjedi1979
its not gonna happen, but we can but dream!
Ciaran Mulholland
How about Flying the Northern Irish Flag? Im Irish, but I respect the wishes of the Unionist Population to remain Brittish. The problem is that there are two Communities that live in Ulster. As much as the unionists want to be Brittish the Republicans want to be Irish. In my opinion (and its just my opinion) Northern Ireland should be looking towards developing itself as a country in its own right. The potential for that country would be huge. So in Essence, Fly the Flag Of Nothern Ireland on City Hall all year round. And on designated days fly the Union Jack and the Tricolour alongside the Northern Ireland flag as a sign of the new co operation and understanding between Great Brittan, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
Brian Holmes
Ciaran, the flag issue was only the last straw. There are serious underlying grievances that the loyalist people feel are being totally ignored by their political representatives. They see a serious imbalance in the peace process and there is a lot of justification for that. Sinn Fein need to settle down and accept that the success of the peace process is dependant on a status quo for the forseeable future. Trying to eradicate all traces of Unionism inch by inch will only cause serious trouble and they are very well aware that dissident rebublicans are waiting on the sidelines to restart the Troubles.
Brian Holmes
The six counties as a country would need some very favourable investment over a very long period to have any chance of success. That is not going to happen. But I like the way your ideas go along the lines of forming a common identity across both communities. Perhaps that is the way forward.
rogmar01
The island of Ireland should be one Ireland for the Irish as it was before the British invaded it.
Brian Holmes
Why?
rogmar01
Perfectly good question. I think most people would agree that the partitioning of a modern European country has no place in the 21st century. Those that feel they should remain British ought to come over here and leave Ireland in the hands of it's true Celtic peoples.
Brian Holmes
It gets complicated. But the obvious question in such cases is how far back in history do you go in determining ownership? That gets even more complicated.
Vladtheinhaler .
so everyone must research their roots back to when records began, return to that country, and stay there? Eh, Rogmar.
Brian Holmes
rogmar here is another consideration for you: The unionist people have all been born in Ireland, as were their forebears going back at least 250 years, so are as Irish as the so-called nationalist people.
happymike CHESTER
The Celtic Irish do not for give what the Brits done 900 years ago. The Loyalists are just new immigrants like Isreal`s illegal settlements in Palestine.
shaun spencer
Youve got to be tolerent of others beliefs whether you believe in them or not.you do not ave to resort to violence.if everyone believed the bible. And believed an eye for an eye the world will be end being blind.
shaun spencer
If a flag is so importent does that mean the moon belongs to the americans.
Brian Holmes
lol yes it definitely does.
happymike CHESTER
Belfast putting up the flag for our princess like what we do in The United Kingdom in the normal land of Britain. Then we take it down until the next Birthday or event . SIMPLE.
Vladtheinhaler .
8:04am on 9/1/2013
Union Flag. Laugh. Scottish get free university education , Welsh get free prescriptions,English get hammered, Northern Irish just...... well What union
pjbeckett
9:19am on 9/1/2013
Slowly but surely they are being shoehorned into the Republic.