UK & World News
- 5 January 2013, 18:20
Girl Guides Could Drop God And Queen From Oath
The Girl Guides are considering whether to remove any mention of God or the Queen from their oath.
The voluntary organisation, which boasts more than half a million members, has launched an online consultation into changes to the pledge that Guides take when they join, known as the Promise.
Girlguiding UK said the move was necessary because an increasing number of girls and volunteers do not identify with the current oath.
In a statement the organisation said: "The Promise is guiding's beating heart - it is the core expression of values and the common standard that brings everyone in guiding together.
"Over the past few years we have heard from more and more girls and leaders who struggle with the wording, particularly in interpreting what it really means to girls today.
"Girlguiding UK is committed to retaining a Promise that is in line with its original principles, but we know it is crucial that girls and young women understand and believe in the words they say."
Guides currently promise to "love my God" and "serve the Queen and country", as well as do their best, help other people and keep the Guide law.
Respondents to the consultation are asked to express their preferences for alternatives such as "do my duty to God", "be true to a higher ideal" and "serve the highest truth and love faithfully at all times".
Options mooted to replace the current mention of the Queen include "serve the Queen and my country", "engage myself with responsibility in the community I live in" and "be true to my country".
The move towards a new oath has been seen as an attempt to attract a new breed of volunteers to lead the Guides.
Last year 50,000 girls were on waiting lists to join the 102-year-old organisation because of a lack of trained leaders, according to reports.
But it also reflects a modernising leadership, with new Girlguiding UK chief executive Julie Bentley telling The Times in November that the Guides are the "ultimate feminist organisation".
Last month, the Scout Association also announced it had launched a consultation to see if members would support an alternative Scout Promise for those who feel unable to pledge a "duty to God".
The Guides' consultation, which is open to members and non-members, will close on March 3.
Update:
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what do you think?
shaun spencer
Wont be long that we'll cease to be british.
LucienSolo1
Oh dear, how very very silly.
Diane Rogers
Another nail in the coffin of what being British means.
LucienSolo1
I'm sorry Diane that you clearly have such ignorance as to what being British is. You should be ashamed of yourself.
johnny_1234
no lucien. YOU should be ashamed of yourself!
Diane Rogers
Actually i'm English. And certainly not ashamed are you ashamed of your nationality
LucienSolo1
No I am not ashamed at all about being English. So are you saying Diane because you are English you are not British? You should educate yourself Diane into what it means to be British. Johnny ...would you like to qualify that please and then I will be happy to enlighten you.
Diane Rogers
English first British second.. The Royal Family.wet summer days,cream teas,football,Sunday dinner,days at the seaside,carol singing just a few things
LucienSolo1
Well I must say Diane, at least you are very amusing. You're probably next going to tell me you like pina coladas too. I love cream teas and make cracking scones. I too love the seaside and the English countryside. I'm quite partial to my Sunday dinner too. How sad it is Diane, we are going to lose all these things because they are going to change the Girl Guide oath.
Diane Rogers
Forgot something else our freedom ro adorn our bodies with art including a St George Flag
LucienSolo1
Good for you. I'd join you in that Diane. I have a great St. Georges flag. I know all about St. Georges Day Diane. I remember standing for hours in wet Aprils at the cenotaph in my number twos.
Diane Rogers
Thought you were British, Why haven't you got a union flag
LucienSolo1
Oh dear dear Diane, I'm just as English as you are. I just also happen to be British. Back later, I'm going to dine now. xx
El Bubsio
Just wanted to point out the irony of mentioning st George to demonstrate your englishness, considering he was turkish born to a palestinian mother and probably never set foot in England.
LucienSolo1
Hi El Bubsio, you speak the truth, but however your point is immaterial to the discussion. I was certainly not using St. George to demonstrate my Englishness, I was referring to St. George's Day, there is a major difference. But here is a better irony for you. How about the irony of using Christianity to demonstrate your Britishness. Christ (although unreasonable to suggest he existsed at all)) was Palestinian born to a virgin mother and certainly never set foot in England.
GillieLouise
So right Diane..... very sad indeed.
Adrian Wagstaff
I think it's not going to be long before Girl Guides are all bowing down to Satan, in that case. If they want to remove the Queen from their oaths then what are they going to replace her with? Isn't the Queen supposed be their leader? Girl Guides don't believe in God and they don't believe in the Queen? What do they believe in? CD discs, internetting, parties and branded sports wear?
snape
if the british give up being british and and allow other nationalities to force thier beliefs on us, will end up the beaten and down trodden. cheers tony bliar, like he cares now !
shaun spencer
Dont know why they have to change some things.im still annoyed they allowed girls to join the scouts.this was a bad move indeed now they want to change the oath.whst next.
LucienSolo1
Well I see the intelligentsia are out in force today. I cannot believe the incredible stupidity of some people on here. I refer to those of you who somehow believe that to be British one must believe in God and support the Queen. How absolutely silly you people are and you really aught to apologise for this. I'm really sorry to disappoint you but this is not the case and further more, we actually live in a democracy. Admittedly it is a democracy of sorts, but still a democracy. It is what real BRITISH people fought for and indeed died for. And as for you Adrian, stop being silly please. Our young people have got more about themselves than worshipping Satan and parties etc. Do not offend them with your ignorance.
LucienSolo1
Have you people actually heard yourselves? Do you actually think we are going to lose our "British" identity simply because a few words are omitted from the oath of the Girl Guides. If this is the case, then your faith and trust in your fellow countrymen is shameful and utterly appalling. Now stop this silly nonsense immediately. If you are afraid of losing your British identity, then act accordingly.
Diane Rogers
We can't because we are called racists probably by people like you.I know died for us and so people like you can make idiotic comments.Both my parents were in the forces. My dad lost a brother who lied about his age so he could fight for freedom of speech
LucienSolo1
Diane, are you an Express reader by any chance. I cannot believe how silly you are. You are not called racist for standing up for British values. My comments are not idiotic at all. I am simply conteracting gross stupidity like yours. I too lost an uncle, he was 18 yeras old when he died for his country. He died fighting for democracy, yes indeed for freedom. This issue above is about that freedom.
Diane Rogers
What difference does it make as to which paperI read. And no I don't read that paper. Are you a teacher
LucienSolo1
No Diane, I am not a teacher, although I am at present here today.......and boy have I got my work cut out for me on this thread. I have clearly got the remedial class.
LucienSolo1
Oh incidentally, the question about the paper was because the Daily Mail comes out with the same tosh that those on this thread are coming out with.
TIM x
Another step towards the end of British culture. For the atheists and politically correct who are crowing at this you will laugh the other side of your faces when the next labour government allows sharia law. Even if you are non religious we should do all we can to keep Christianity as our national religion.
johnny_1234
exactly
El Bubsio
Errr, why? That's just as strange as saying all Christians should support Buddhism.
davethedalek
All religion should be banned as an insult to human intelligence. I, for one, would not pledge alligeance to an insane belief.
johnny_1234
more pandering to political correctness and making sure we don't offend any non-christians.
El Bubsio
Or to look at it another way, simply removing the parts that are irrelevant to the people they're trying to appeal to.
LucienSolo1
Oh wow. I have heard of "speak like a pirate day" but I must admit I have never heard of "write like a clown" day. What is going on here? Are you all just drinking off the last of the New Year's booze or something? Now as for Christianity, do you think that this religion actually refects British values? I am referring to CofE Christianity of course. Sharia Law clearly does not and I have campaigned and continue to do so against the introduction of this in Britain. I do so because I happen to be British and understand British values.
Diane Rogers
Go on then as you are so knowledgeable whar are your British values. your dying to tell us
Diane Rogers
Don't drink
LucienSolo1
I'll give you three relevant ones Diane. I'd give you more but would you really be able to comprehend them? Fairness, equality and personal freedom are three values that we all should be very proud of. Or perhaps, you think these values are not worthy of us. I'm not dying to tell you at all, they would be lost on people of your limited understanding Diane.
Russell6730
Hey Lucien those stupid pills your on really work
Diane Rogers
Yes personal freedom to express views and not be patronized by people like you. And are you being fair to people on here who disagree with you.And equality no matter how educated any of us are.
LucienSolo1
It would be very cowardly of me Rusell to engage in a battle of wits with what is clearly and unarmed man.
LucienSolo1
I am being very fair to everyone here Diane. I'm simply educating them darling, not patronising them at all. Now try and be a good girl and understand that. I'm glad you like equality. This issue that we are discussing Diane is all about equality actually. Good for you, good girl.
Russell6730
Another great British inst*tution about to be purged of everything that made it decent and appealing to millions the world over......even in non christian countries
LucienSolo1
What utter tosh.
El Bubsio
So your logic is that the mention of the British monarch and the Christian god made this organisation appear more decent and more appealing to those outside Britain and those who believe in a different/no god? Okaaaay o_0
stewgwyn
The guide/scout movement is a commitment to a healthy and charitable lifestyle, not a commitment to being a royalist, or to a church that absurdly, will allow g*a*y bishops but not female ones.
LucienSolo1
Was the Daily Express free this morning or something?
LucienSolo1
No...I've changed my mind. It was the Daily Mail wasn't it?
Nick Bowden
This comment has been removed for violations of our Terms and Conditions.
LucienSolo1
Wow be very careful Nick. There are a lot of Daily Mail readers here who would have you hung for that. They think they are British too.
Diane Rogers
No because we are all entitled to a opinion.And allowed to express it
LucienSolo1
Now Diane, what have I told you? Try and be a good girl. You can indeed Express your opinions, you can also Mail them if you like. Now listen Diane, I'm popping offline now but will be back later. I've really enjoyed your company so don't stray too far.
Diane Rogers
I wont just gonna watch a great English comedy
Diane Rogers
Forgot to say it's to late to tell me to be a good girl
LucienSolo1
You know Diane, you sound like a girl of my own heart. Please tell me, what great English comedy are you going to watch.
El Bubsio
I'll never understand the obsession some people have with pride in their nationality. I have nothing against it (unless it's used as an excuse to put others down based on theirs), I just don't really understand how someone can be proud of being born on one bit of Rock as opposed to another bit of Rock on a big ball of mud floating in the vastness of space, all of which is happenstance. It's not like you have any control over it. It seems to me like having some swelling pride in the fact you have brown hair or are taller than average. I know some people will say that they're proud of their culture and so on, but you'd be just as proud of your culture if you were german, Japanese or brazilian. I just don't see how one can feel pride in random circumstance and a culture and customs that you had no part in forming. Ho hum.
Louisa Gieldon
That's exactly how i feel. It's an accident of birth. I quite like scotland because i know it, i'm used to it and there are some nice aspects to it. But there are also many many thngs that other countries do better. I wish we could learn from each other instead of blindly insisting that we are all the best
keith
This comment has been removed for violations of our Terms and Conditions.
chrishearn350
I think Jimmy might have asked them to drop em in the past !
Brian Holmes
"Girlguiding UK said the move was necessary because an increasing number of girls and volunteers do not identify with the current oath." In that case, they are in the wrong organisation. Tail wagging the dog.
Louisa Gieldon
Lucien i'd like to thank you as that discussion with DR gave me the biggest giggling fit and cheered up a drab West Lothian morning! I'm now off to the tattoo parlour to adorn my body with the saltire on one side of my neck and the lion rampant on the other. Not!!
LucienSolo1
3:43pm on 5/1/2013
A step in the right direction
pjbeckett
3:59pm on 5/1/2013
It`s the same with that " clean in thought word and deed stuff " who the hell is these days ? in fact, why bother to have Scouts and Guides anyway ?
joelle cooke
4:54pm on 5/1/2013
I agree,and i hope they carry on,stop all this old nonsons,young people can`t relate to this! And they are right!! Girl power!!!
LucienSolo1
6:07pm on 5/1/2013
Note the cowardice of five thumbs down but afraid to engage in debate.
Micheal Booth
6:28pm on 5/1/2013
It's not cowardice. There are enough Comments on here expressing peoples dissatisfaction with this decision. Years of tradition and history are being ignored!
LucienSolo1
6:40pm on 5/1/2013
Nonsense. I have seen these comments and responded accordingly. Years of history are being ignored? Are you seriously telling me that we should keep something just because it happened in our past? So was it indeed wrong of us to abolish slavery? Stop being silly Michael.
Micheal Booth
7:07pm on 5/1/2013
I wasn't saying ALL history. Now who is being silly?
LucienSolo1
7:13pm on 5/1/2013
Well then why bring it up? My point Michael, unlike yours of course, was cogent, intelligent and justified. And to answer yur question, you are being silly Michael, now stop this this at once.