UK & World News
'Bedroom Tax' To Hit Thousands Of Families
Thousands of families living in social housing are facing a cut in their benefits from April because they are seen to have too big a home.
The under-occupation penalty, dubbed "the bedroom tax", aims to encourage households to downsize if they have spare rooms, freeing up their properties for larger families.
But council house tenant Eddie Bird says the policy fails to take into consideration individual cases. His wife Shirley has terminal cancer, and weighing just five-and-a-half stone, needs her own room.
"Any form of movement on the bed and it affects my wife. She's in constant back pain," said Mr Bird. "There's no room for separate beds so I sleep in the box room."
They have been told they will lose nearly £14 a week in benefits.
"It's going to affect my wife's quality of life. We have a Motability car but if we can't afford to put petrol in it, we can't go on any day trips."
The Government hopes the policy will make better use of almost a million rooms that are not used and help reduce the £23bn housing benefit bill.
Communities Secretary Eric Pickles said: "We've put a fairly sizeable sum aside to be able to ensure that those kind of cases can be paid for.
"But the general idea that there has to be a limit on the amount of benefit that people receive I think is a correct one.
"And these are exactly the same kind of rules that have existed in the last few years in private rented (accommodation), so we are applying to public housing.
"If it was good enough for private renting, it's got to be good enough for public housing."
But critics question how you can penalise tenants for not moving somewhere smaller when there simply are not enough suitable sized properties available.
It is something the Coast and Country Housing Association has seen in South Teesside. They have 10,000 properties but only two one-bedroom apartments available.
Chief executive Iain Sim said: "We had the pasty tax last year - this is the nasty tax. This is hitting people directly who through no fault of their own are under-occupying the property that they live in.
"The cut in their benefit will range from 14% for one room up to 25% for two rooms. That's a loss in income of between £10 and £22 a week. That's a lot of money to take from people with very limited incomes."
The change is expected to affect 660,000 claimants.
Some households will be exempt if, for example, a non-resident carer for a disabled person helps at the home overnight.
But as Eddie and Shirley Bird are married they will not be eligible for this exemption. Their only hope is that they will qualify for financial assistance from a fund called the Discretionary Housing Payment scheme, but it is not guaranteed.
what do you think?

shaun spencer
Were gettong stories like this in the office here all the time.some people are willing to downsize but cant get any help towards the cost of shifting their furniture and belongings so are in a position where they cant afford to live in their home but also cant afford to move neither.their should be help towards the cost of this but currently there isnt any help.

Andrea Hill
what! get a van, anything, my friend had a farmer take her stuff on a trailer for a minimal fee. he didfew trips. god these people want jam on it!"

Hector Gomez
Indeed, people could be trapped by poverty.

shaun spencer
Andrea do expect a man and van to work for nothing.people have done this and the cheapest price being quoted is £ 150.people just havent got it.period.

shaun spencer
Andrea youve obviosly not had the misfortune to find yourself on benefits.but there are people who actually want to move as theve always believed their house is too big for them as its more difficult for them to keep tidy but they cant raise the money to do this.one woman we know is in a place that has three bedrooms but is 75 years of age and has bought her family up in the place and the kids have left home.now shes expected to move or pay for two spare rooms to stay there.we even had someone come in who cant sleep with her husband as he snores something rotten which sounds comical in first hearing but actually it turns more serious as she is deprived of sleep.does the nhs pay to cure his snoring because this is the only way this could be rectified let alone those that are disabled and need space.

shaun spencer
Another case we had is that the woman sleep walks and keeps the husband awake and so hes too tired to go to work the next morning.so theres all sorts of problems coming up as as a result of the bedroom tax.

Steven Turnbull
the woman sleep walks and keeps the husband awake and so hes too tired to go to work the next morning What an amazing excuse not to work Wish i'd thought of that

shaun spencer
Actually it sounds a pathetic excuse steven but in reality it can become a big problem if your being deprived of sleep.this bloke claims he once fell asleep at the wheel on the way to work once.

Sophie Standen
Sean, it all depends on which council you are with. Devon county council are usually pretty good when helping someone downsize. For example, they will give you a couple of grand. The council helped one woman by paying for her to carpet her new place and gave her decorating vouchers...I'm pretty sure they paid for the removal van as well but I will have to double check that one. There are incentives to downsizing though, although I'm not sure if they are still going to help now they know the spare bedroom tax is being enforced

shaun spencer
Well thats most definatly not the case with the council were under thats for sure.what council has done this ive definatly not heard of this before.your not possibly confusing this with a community care grant which is for the disabled to equip their place.its sounds like it anyway.

shaun spencer
Theres one case where a woman has lived in her house for forty five years and got permission to bury her husband in the garden.now she having to move.in the future it will mean that if she wants to visit her husbands grave she will have to knock on the future occupiers door and ask permission to visit the grave.

Andrea Hill
you cant bury someone in the garden, do you mean ashes?

Hector Gomez
Without wishing to be callous, maybe having your husband buried in the garden isn't a great idea.

Andrea Hill
think.you can bury ashes, but not a body in a coffin, saw a programme once where a man wanted to bury his wife in garden, it wasnot allowed, neighbours were appalled.

Andrea Hill
appalled at the idea, not that it wasnt allowed.

Hector Gomez
I buried my last cat in my garden under his favorite tree. Even this isn't straight forward as you have to make sure the area won't be disturbed by any drainage or cable laying work, and I'm an owner occupier! Surely there must be something in a rental agreement that says ... No pets, No burying Corpses in the garden, No loud music after 10pm etc.

shaun spencer
I dont know the law on this, but appatently you can have someone buried in the garden with the owners consent.i think theres all sorts of rules and stipulations but it can be done, this woman certainly seems to have done it.but i got to say i was vety surprized when we were told this.

John Wood
Those were the days when a house was a home, no matter what your social standing was. Now it a bargaining tool used by an uncaring money fixated government.

shaun spencer
If we can tax second bedrooms we can tax second homes that remain empty for most of the year.this could raise money to help fund the building of social housing particuarly for the young who cant find places locally.

Hector Gomez
A valid point but I guess the difference is that the state isn't directly paying for someone's second home.

shaun spencer
Yes thats true hector but local people cant get places to live in villages around here because homes are being taken up by second home owners so local people have no alternative but to add themselves to the council housing list which is already too long.i dont think people from the city can appreciate just how much second homes are killing off villages and local communities in the country.

Hector Gomez
I agree Shaun, second homes are killing rural communities in some picturesque hamlets. But these local people only have themselves to blame. If they went to the trouble of leaving more fridges and mattresses in their front gardens these city toffs would be put off.

shaun spencer
Actually its the second homes that have the overgrown gardens and are in an unkept condition as theres nobody there to look after them properly.hector

shaun spencer
In one village i know of even the church has closed as no ones even is being buried there now let alone the closure of the local pub and post office.

GillieLouise
Many second homes in my area are left empty during the winter months and then the owners demand a huge rental during summer months.....This practice should be addressed.

shaun spencer
There is the discretionary housing scheme but we are being told there is only enough money in the pot to last for two months as everybody on low incomes will claim it.so really is like having a sweetner with the bad medicine and only for a very short while.

Malcolm Pepper
Not everyone in a council house is on benefits so what happens if they have a spare room. does the rent go up?

Andrea Hill
dont think so, it just to cut benefits

shaun spencer
It includes everyone with a spare room working or not.

Sophie Standen
The answer is no. It only applies to those on housing benefit

shaun spencer
No it doesnt sophie it applies to everyone in a council house who has a spare room.

Sophie Standen
Shaun, without sounding rude, you need to do some research before answering any questions. I know for a fact it is only affecting those on housing benefit. Whether that will change in the future...who knows

shaun spencer
Sophie you can be working and still be claiming housing benefit and council tax which is capped.so you would lose the cap.not everyone but some who are on a very low wage.

shaun spencer
Though sophie different councils are not implementing this.

Sophie Standen
Yes shaun, if you're working and pay full rent/council tax then you won't be affected...if you work and still claim X amount of housing benefit then it will affect you

Andrea Hill
i feel sorry for people who are desperate for the space, people who use wheelchairs etc., but just to have a bigger house-no.. im sick of people on benefits(ones who have no interest in working)having more than hard working people. next i hope drug abusers are targeted.

Hector Gomez
Does the thought of a drug abuser confined to a wheelchair throw your value system into turmoil?

Andrea Hill
think.your clever asking questions like that do you. well your not. you knew exactly what i meant.

shaun spencer
There are people who abuse the system andrea there always will be in any system but these are in the minority and isnt what everyone on benefits is doing.you seem to be suggesting everybody on benefits is on drugs.

Hector Gomez
I feel told off now. I mearly meant to highlight the assumptions made about drug users and people with disabilities. Winston Churchill, Charles Dickens, Sigmund Freud were all reported drug users, for instance. Not all people in wheelchairs need to be supported by the state. Stephen Hawkins has done ok for himself. I felt it was all a little simplistic,stereotyping and patronising. But I confess, I did know exactly what you meant and I promise not to try to be clever again, sorry.

shaun spencer
No your right hector it is steriotyping.

Andrea Hill
thank you

john
My local newspaper reported the case of a woman who will be one hundred pounds a month worse off because her two sons are serving in Afghanistan and their bedrooms are empty, the council have advised her to take in lodgers to make up the difference, though the question of where her sons are going to sleep when they return on leave was left unanswered.

11info11
so if you have over crowded rooms will you get money back next it will be the window tax start buying bricks

Bazil Brush
the romanians and bulgarians need big houses. they must be rubbing there hands.

field_pete
That's just it, don't let us Brits get in the way of the immigrants.

davenlesley
There are two sides to this issue, as always. The anomolies like the cancer sufferer & the soldiers posted abroad do need addressing but there is also the question of 3 bedroomed family homes being occupied by 1 person. I have seen this with people I know several times. Usually a person whose kids have left home and whose partner has died. rattling around in a house too big for them while families needing a bigger house are squeezed into places too small for them. The problem is many councils put the onus on these singletons to "bid" once a week for smaller houses and at 80 years old many, unsurprisingly, can't be bothered. They should make it easier for those wanting to move to a smaller place

stewgwyn
I sort of agree Dave, but I see another side to it. Many responsible tenants have paid in excess of 50 years rent, i.e. equivalent to the term of 2 average mortgages. They have kept the property in good order, and have tidy gardens. I believe they have the right to spend their twilight years free from extra taxation, or pressure to downsize in favour of those who have bigger families than they can afford.

shaun spencer
Exactly daven and also stewgwgn.ive als come across people who want to downsize as their place has become too big for them to look after on their own but cant get help to do so.there is a community care grant but this doesnt cover the cost of moving but will pay for things once theyve moved such as mobility aids some will even pay for wet rooms to be installed if the person is unable to use a bath.

davenlesley
Stewgwyn. As we agree there are several facets to this issue and nothing is cut & dried. Many of the people I referred to had been in council houses for almost 60 years and found the gardens too big to handle.

Malcolm Pepper
If you are working and can pay the full rent on a council property and do not not need benefits but you have an empty room. does the rent go up. do you move or does everything stay the same ?

Sophie Standen
As it stands at the moment, those who are working and don't have any help from housing benefit will be fine...It's only aimed at those on housing benefit

Andrea Hill
it only affecting people on benefits.

George Clement
It's a wonder that this lot haven't brought back the window tax, they went back in history to resurrect the poll tax.

John Wood
This coalition government should be aware that the majority of socially fair minded voters will see this of further evidence of hitting those with the least the hardest. I have faith in the majority of people who vote in this country, they will answer Cameron and Clegg with an emphatic no when the next general election takes place. A lot of people thought Thatcher was the best thing to happen to this country, remember the poll tax, black Wednesday scores of vibrant communities destroyed or reduced to a life on benefits because there only means of income was closed down. Another nail in the coffin of this abhorrent coalition government.

mijo
Surely if your a council tenant and they deem that you have a spare room, should you request a smaller property from the council which they cannot provide surely the benefit reduction should not count as its down to the council to provide a smaller property. Our local council has only 20 2 bed properties.

Sophie Standen
Yes but they can exchange...there are always people needing more bedrooms but very few people wanting less rooms

Micheal Booth
Have I got this right? IF you are a couple living on your own in a 3 bed Council house AND you receive Housing Benefit .... that Benefit will be cut? There must be an appeals process, so in the case of the disabled lady sleeping on her own, surely she can appeal and these extenuating circumstances will mean her Benefit will not be cut? Where is Louisa when you need her?

shaun spencer
This couple will be expected to pay for having two spare rooms.which will cost them an extra twenty pounds a week on average.plus pay towards their council tax bill.

davenlesley
Michael. She is probably out on the streets of Edinburgh berating the council for something or another

Sophie Standen
I personally can't wait for this spare bedroom tax to be enforced. My nearly 7 year old daughter and I have been sharing a bedroom for for nearly 6 years. We have drug use in the communal area, 4 massive dogs that run around without leads and the garden is full of dog pooh. Yet they still won't move us up on the list. Despite working full time, I can't afford to go private, so I'm hoping this new system will better mine and everyone else's chances of exchanging and getting the adequate amount of rooms/space needed.

shaun spencer
Yes sophie, but the council should have given the appropriate property to the apropreate deserving peaple in the first place.also peoples circumstances change for instance a loss of a loved one would obviously be a change of circumstance and this person would not only be widowed but also possibly not be able to live in the place she thought was a home for life.

shaun spencer
Also as soon as your daughter goes to university or whatever which could be in just ten years time for you.you will be expected to move out of your new home even possibly back into the place you currently live in which it sounds like you are unhappy in now.

davenlesley
Sophie. And that darlin is the other side of the argument to all those busily highlighting apparent unfairness to those with unused rooms

stephen
Sophie you are only thinking of your self

stephen
Sophie and when you get a council house you will buy it on the cheap . me me me

bjnk
When is this fascist rule going to be brought to an end,we need action. Next thing will be dispossession of all on benefits just like germany did to the Jews,because they are being vilified in the same way.I dont think I have in my vocabulary enough contempable/swear words to describe my loathing for this tory government,of course orange would delete it anyway.

Steve
Here Here........

stephen
Bevan built council houses. for the first time people had decent housing .look what thatcher /Blair have done . created Victorian britain again

stephen
on the 30 next month mass protest in london .get down to London on the 30 .starts at 130 . SAY NO TO THE BEDROOM TAX





Paul Grice
6:58am on 23/2/2013
This comment has been removed for violations of our Terms and Conditions.
stewgwyn
11:09am on 23/2/2013
You're right Paul, these proposals are all one-way traffic. There's no mention of all the people on benefits with their tribes of ''dolly mixture'' kids thinking that they deserve to take over a larger house that someone else has paid well-earned rent for, in many cases for over 50 years.
Dr_MonicaKh
11:34am on 23/2/2013
You know wars are very expensive. This proposal won't recoup any major costs back. Yet folks seem to deflect away from the real issue at hand, I.e the cause.